Chi Ma Wan: trail works

Chi Ma Wan's roughest section got refitted a month ago. it's now much easier to ride from the big rock lookout to the connection that goes down to the sea ranch. The AFCD have made a rather good job with smaller steps and access ramps on the uphill side of most of the stairs. Everything is now possible to clear staying on the bike with a XC bike and some skills.

If you haven't seen it yet I really advice you to go, it's the first time the AFCD does trail improvements that suite mountain biking. A rather nice step forward.

Good news..hope go to riding within this month and see how's AFCD work at there!

Julien,
are you in contact with the AFDC during the CMW trail work?
Are they going to rework the dragons back (extra loop) section. This would make it a lot more rideable and give us another good trail on CMW.

I rode the trail, but m~~~ I think the trail has been refitted for too good, a little bit over for mountain biking. Does anyone think so?

Tong,
I agree in some areas that they've gone a bit overboard but in the great scheme of things its an overall improvement. My main concern is that they don't do anymore to the main trail and make it all as wide and flat as the section they've most recently completed this side of the lookout (sea ranch).
they would be more productive now to move onto the extra loop which has many unrideable sections - especially in the middle third section of it.

Yes it's time they stopped on the main trail, there's little to be gained now in widening and removing all the rocks that really didn't need removing in the first place, it's just making it waay to boring.

Over the last twelve years i've revelled in the challenge of completing all but about two of the technical sections betwen the prison and Sea Ranch lookout. Some for the first time just this year, which goes to show either i'm a slow learner or there's a bit of a constant learning curve thing going on.

This is what makes the sport so attractive, the more hours you put in the better technical rider you become, if the challenge factor was taken out I would have stopped riding long ago and my technical skills would never have grown.

The 'Extension' section has huge potential, it's almost the next graduation step up from the main trail in terms of difficulty, but realistically the AFCD contractors will have trouble distinguishing between what to leave and what to flatten. A surprising amount of it is quiet rideable and fun once you've mastered CMW main trail.

WORD OF CAUTION: DONT GO TOO FAR

i had a conversation this morning with a friend and we started to lament the past, i remember the days when CHI MA WAN was concidered one of the toughest trails in hk, part of its appeal was the difficulty of some of the obsticles, we would go there and not race around the trail in sub one hour blasts but take our time, stop at obsticles and try and try again until we cleared them. This not only improved our skills dramatically but it also made for a good day out.

now im not saying that the work done is a bad thing but at the rate it is coninueing it will all soon be flat - yes it will be dirt but it will be flat dirt! with no lumps or bumps to challenge us, if we are not careful the same wil happen to the extention

i do realise that CMW was hard for many novices and by flattening the trail it will rencourage more to the sport. the dissapointing thing is that skills will not be improved if there are no challenges out there, what ever happened to the principle of hike a bike a little if the terrain gets to tough!

bb

Anyone riden CMW in the last couple of weeks and want to comment?
Is the trail work generally welcomed or not, particulary by people who ride the trail regularly?
My worry is that AFCD have told their contractors "the mountain bikers have asked us to make it flat"...and they won't stop until they have done, which could ruin the fun for a lot of people, and give AFCD a false impression of what people want. I'll be riding it next Sunday in the race, I was personally quite happy with the work that was done up until mid-September (the last AA race), but, like the bearded blunder, I'd be annoyed if they removed all the little technical sections that I've spent the last few years gradually mastering (e.g. "the fridge") - beginners needs something to aim at, and technical riders need the chance to claw back some time on the roadie-types during races!
Anyone using this forum have any contact with the people at AFCD who are carrying out the work? Seems like this could be an ideal opportunity to agree with AFCD a proper system of trail work - at the moment it is all ad hoc, and ultimately seems to come down to the personal preference of the labourer who's swinging the pick. I'd like to see AFCD put a system in place for notifying potential trail work, via this site and its Chinese equivalents, arranging for feedback (either written or in a meeting), publicising the decision, then inviting bikers to inspect the work plan before it starts and as it progresses. I don't think this would be all that difficult to arrange - democracy in action, universal suffrage for mountain bikers?!!!

I have been riding Chi Ma Wan regularly for the past 9 years, and have ridden it several times in the last week. The trail works seem to be an overall improvement, and will make it more accessible for more riders. But they do need to stop work on the main loop now - they are now just loosening the already clear part of the trail and making it very slippery and unstable. Most of the work so far is a good improvement though.

Is there any way we can talk them into working on the extra loop ? Both the start and end of the extra loop are fantastic, and in very good condition, suitable for beginners, and a fast fun ride for experienced riders. These sections do not need any work. However the middle section requires about 15 minutes of hike-a-bike, and this section would benefit hugely from their trail work expertise.

I believe also that the coastal trail could use a bit of work. This is where there tend to be a few mishaps, and in places it is barely rideable. This trail attracts the most new riders - and many of them don't get as far as the CMW trail before turning back.

I agree that trailwork can be a slippery slope - we need to be sure that everyone is given enough time / opportunity to voice their opinions on it. For my part, I think almost-unrideable-for-most sections like "the Refridgerator" should be left as-is, otherwise you destroy the challenge for a lot of people. Also, every time we come into contact with govt. people or contractors or whatever, we need to stress to them in clear terms that CONCRETE = BAD and DIRT [and natural materials] = GOOD

The AFCD doesn't have standards to follow for bike trail improvement. The workers do the best they can think of.
We've met the guys refacing what used to be the most difficult section (ridable with a big bike and loads of skills). We stopped and tried to engage a conversation with a very broken mix Cantonese and Mandarin. We've tried to explain the guy in charge what was a line and the space a rider need to go through a section. I was demonstrating going down the stairs they just had built and showing them it was not possible to follow the ramp they had made for bikers. The guy understood and improved the section the next day.

Their is a communication problem between bikers and the AFCD. I did clearly ask the AFCD people we met last year to put us in touch with people responsible of bike trail improvement. And for sure they didn't do it (or maybe they've asked the cycling association - this guy who doesn't ride bike without motors!
Anyway, it's certainly coming down to the usual language barrier - MTB experts need to communicate with Trail experts; and no one speaks the other language. And the MTBikers are not certified by a tittle such as an association or a company.

a strange new development has occured recently regarding trail improvement, not only does afcd seem agreeable to trail maintenance/building, they are also looking for suggestions and even consultation

Aparrently the reason why very little has been done in the past is, get this i find it quite sillly! the reason why is because to tender the government for a grant to get any money for a project the said project and its workers have to have a job discription and title. The afcd hasnt been able to come up with a job discription that would be suitable for trailwork. so without any kind of job discription or position discription for the person overseeing the project then it will not proceed

this all may sound very weird - it does to me and i hope i havent made a hash of explaining it!

BUT there may be an end in sight, it may be possible that if a certain organised body lets say a HK MTB "club" could make suggestions and even recommend someone with trail making expertise (if there are any experts out there looking for work let us know!!!!!!!) then theoretically a position could be made available for as consultant to work with afcd on this matter - all that is holding AFCD back is the want of a job discription and a job title!!!!!

Or so a little bird told me!

Incredible but quite believable! Would the proposed builders have to be IMBA trained or accredited? Is there a standard or qualifictaion required. also will the changes/ trail work to the trails be done on a consensus basis or will they just get done, which could please or upset any two groups of riders?

Hi Guys,

I have been checking that old trail starting from Shap long Campsite and ending behind the Chi Ma Wan Prison.
The trail is in great condition and the overgrown vegetation need to be taken care off to make the trail rideable.

I made my way through the small trees , but lots of work still needs to be done to make it clear for bikes to ride, any suggestions are welcome.

Cheers,

PALM

I think "Trail Work Unit Supervisor" would fit - give each of them a copy of this book, which is official policy for most govt. departments:

http://www.imba.com/resources/trail_building/trail_solutions.html

And make sure every Supervisor has read and understood it [and know how to ride a mountain bike, otherwise it's pointless] before directing anyone to stick a shovel in the ground. No less will do.

Brandon

i believe they already have the book and a very wekk produced proposal from the old guys from hkmba

but i think they got stuck on some of the big words used like "solutions"

so gave up in the end!

i truelly think going in with a very radical and hardened approach is not the way to go - i think we will have to comprimise somewhere for greater gains later - or we may just end up at a stalemate or worse trails that are shite for everyone except those with stabaslisers!

Chi Ma Wan RIP.

rode cmw last weekend for the first time for 3 weeks. the section from lung mei around to the lookout has now been totally destroyed.
this section used to be good single track with a few technical challenges thrown in.it's now been widened to about 5 foot flattened and covered in a soft mixture of grit and soil which you sink into. even the banking on the corners allowing you to maintain speed round the turn has been affected as the widening has left a 90 deg angle between the trail and the bank.
its a shame because in my view they did well from the lookout onwards but since seem to have lost the plot on the lung mei section.
time for them to pack up and leave and not touch anything else.
I don't really understand their motives because if they want to make it safer for families they've missed the mark with their target audience as families won't venture out that far anyway, so all they've achieved is spoiling the trail for the current users.
If anything taking out the tech sections will speed up the trail and increase the likelihood of an accident between rider and hiker. The outcome of which will no doubt have a negative effect on the riding community.

Recommend as many as possible go to this Dec 8 AFCD meeting at Queen Elizabeth stadium to view their points. One problem I believe AFCD faces is many different mtn bikers of all levels telling them what is good and bad from beginner riders to the most elite in HK. Believe what could help is those who don't like certain sections of certain trails in HK, to send AFCD some photos of something that needs potential work (like stair cases for some) and some photos of what it should look like (with no cement please and only natural environmental things like trees, rocks to build trails, make improvements, etc) for the final look that you think is best. Could be a photo from a cool trail in the States, Canada, OZ, NZ, UK, wherever. It seems AFCD just contracts work out to their workers who are only doing their best in the interest of the biking community and what their senior AFCD boss is telling them. They are trying to help so don't think we should slag them off, but offer guidence and recommendations and not just criticism.

I myself did ride CMW a few weeks ago and do agree that they have gone a little overboard after Lung Mei, (I thought they were only doing work on the 2 stairs, but AFCD kept going on the trail much longer than people expected), but also do believe that after a few heavy rains, a lot of that soft dirt will be washed out, dirt will be washed off the sides to make those 45 degree bank turns and it wont be long before it looks the same as before.....(as long as they don't use cement as wasn't too happy seeing cement in some sections). If you use other trails in HK for reference as living here for 17 yrs I can tell you from experience trails do get rutted out quite fast from erosion, heavy rains, etc.

Mike,
the meeting with AFDC is agood idea but I don't agree with many different people of varying standards bombarding them with photos and ideas.The only outcome will be confusion.
A coordinated approach would be more effective from one or two (preferably with trail building experience) who have collected ideas from everyone else, this way the AFDC guys will have more of a chance of understanding the message.
As for CMW I'm not quite as optimistic as you with regard to a "few rain showers will restore the trail". Even with a few more ruts it will still be 5 foot wide with no technical sections.
I apologise if this all seems very negative but this is our local trail which untill recently served the needs of both x country and free riders but now is more suited to people who aren't actually going to ride it anyway.
Pete.

I think the last two replies made, both of which are very valid, highlight what I see as a broader problem within the cycling community. There are a multitude of small groups who like everything from XC to Downhill, with a health dose of Freeride in there too, this is what makes the whole trail work discussion so difficult to get right. My feeling, as it has been for a long time, is that there should be a body of representatives who can talk with backing for the cycling community, otherweise we will have as we have now, individuals taking the bold and admirable step to do and suggest improvements which may rightly upset other riders, the CMW example being a good one ( with an amount of well intentioned mis directed work too

.

If there was more of an indentity/ club then this would help create the one voice or balanced opinion required. ie we need this for XC, this for AM, this for Freeriding/ DH etc.

Should these improvements/ trail projects not fall under the HK Biking association or the old HKMBA banner?

Lots of willing individuals, with great ideas, but with no body or foundation, I fear the confusion and conflict over trail use and needs will only become more compounded.

This is my take on what i see as the biggest opportunity to get things done and the biggest threat that could prevent development of suitable trails and appropriate mainatiance of those few we have.

Petedb, agree with you on possible confusion with too many people. Believe in other threads others including myself already recommended spokesperson idea.
Photos is only one of many ideas someone could use as just an easy way if AFCD official likes it to pass down to worker.
Brings up next point how to get spokesperson for XC, downhill, etc, etc. Don't think AA is blowing it's own trumpet but we've been tossing the idea around for a while at trying to start some kind of AA bike consulting committee (name can be changed), with ideas being generated at a regular meeting (monthly?) in exchange for races or something for the purpose on telling us what a lousy job were doing and how to improve on events. The committee or spokesperson (not me) could be also possibly used to lobby AFCD/other govt depts besides helping AA out. Just an idea to get the ball rolling. No harm we believe in having different committees/associations in HK expressing their views if good representatives know what their talking about. So if you like the idea possibly you all could help decide if a good idea or can the idea and if usefull will leave it up to you all to figure out how to vote for the person(s). We're to busy dealing with logistics and other headaches. Figure this idea could be short-term solution to get ball rolling for Dec 8 meeting. Can email aae@actionasia.com if other ideas also but we would like to get our own committee for future bike events in HK. Just don't know how to choose people??? Unless we just set a date and see who comes and let them vote at meeting?


	Magazine Past Issues Subscribe Articles Events Forum About Us